«I am an humble writer, not a little Mother Theresa, I do not pretend to give messages to anyone...» Dominique Lapierre starts by shying away.

But after thirty years of "mission" in the third world, you will surely have something to say to the "professional" missionaries, to the volunteers, to the Church....

"I shall confess that my encounter with the third world was a shock. I understood that the problem of the world was poverty; I was even astonished by the fact that poor people were not organizing a revolution. Furthermore, today even the people who are dying of hunger have a TV and know how people live in the West. The day they meet a violent Gandhi who pushes towards a revolt, that very day I hope I will not be there. On the contrary I think that the situation would be different if there were today a Mahatma, if there were more Mandelas...

Has the world injustice become more endurable than it was 50 years ago?

Yes, it has. Today you can be in Calcutta for 10 days without meeting a beggar and in the streets there are not only rickshaws but also Mercedes. However, in India there are still 300 million people who go to bed, no more with empty stomachs, but still hungry. This is unacceptable. There are many unjust situations in the world that the first thing to do is to try to right these disparities. It is terrible to see how so much money is wasted for reasons that have nothing to do with happiness, rights, education and health. This is why I tell my rich Indian friends (I even created a Foundation down there to raise funds for my initiatives, but it was not particularly successful): do not let the abyss between you and them widen because probably one day, crowds will not talk any longer about non-violence, they will form a revolution.

Are you alluding to terrorism?

Exactly. Where does it come from? First of all from poverty. I have visited the camps of refugees from Palestine and it is not difficult to understand that a kamikaze has nothing to lose when all his hope is to live in Jenin...

Islam also shows its will of domination in the West.

Maybe, but a lot depends on the places. Bin Laden represents a small faction, in the Qur'an nothing of what is happening in Teheran is forecasted. This is a perversion of Islam, the same way the destruction of the Aztecs by Cortés was a perversion of the cross.

We are talking, then, about religion.

In India - a Country where 20 million divinities are worshipped - I have learnt the virtue of a really universal tolerance. And I have learnt how to pray my God, the Christian one of my childhood, even in the mosques, in the Hindu temples, with people who follow, in a different way, my same path towards the salvation of the soul. This gave me a much more global version - universal if you want - of religion, compared to the "narrow" version of Christianity.

Someone may call it syncretism...

Exactly. But I do admire this kind of syncretism, or better, this dialogue of life. I think it is something very beautiful. You live next to the humblest and poorest people and you may see up to what point they deserve eternity, no matter what religion they profess. And it is as if poverty levels out all social and even religious conditions; it is extraordinary. I admire them to the point that I cannot but think very humbly that they too are on the right path.

Are all religions the same, then?

I don't mean to say that. This is an experience that I had the chance to do but I definitely do not have the key to expand it to the rest of humanity. I only remark that war, hate and terrorism often depend on the possession of richness and the desire to have other people's richness. In "City of Joy", rather, there are people who, even if fighting to survive, have understood that the only way to live is by respecting others and walking on a common path. Many Muslims are convinced that Christians - the "crusaders" as they call them - want to destroy them (and vice versa) only because human beings have not learnt to know each other, to meet each other.

According to you, who is the missionary today?

A man who shares the life of the people with whom he lives, completely. You need first of all to respect and to identify with the lives of poor people, the word of the Gospel may be spread only through example: without separation and without closing into hierarchies. Like many Charles de Foucauld. And at the end you will receive more than what you give because poor people are amazing.

What have you personally learnt? 

Their spiritual values. In "City of Joy" no one is abandoned, no one is snatched out of his family, his roots, his religion. There is a sort of unity that is so strong that people can face difficulties with an unbelievable courage. These are human beings who are able to thank heaven for the smallest blessing and my experience with them gave me extraordinary proofs of God's existence; even if then you have the impression that He has forgotten His children. I think that a poor person, in Paris or in Milan, is much more miserable and desperate than a poor person in India, even if he cannot rely on State aids. The worst misery I have seen was not in Calcutta but in Rome or in the Bronx of New York, serving food to the homeless people collected by the sisters of Mother Theresa. There people are cut off from everything, spiritually abandoned, without any hope.

Are you reproachful of something in the Church?

Usually I am careful not to criticise an institution as a whole which is often going through difficult times. It is true that the Holy Father's actions are extraordinary. But this does not hinder me from seeing that a certain bishop of a certain Indian city, who lives in his air-conditioned bungalow and who has a car with a chauffeur, is not in contact with real poverty... I am shocked by some exterior manifestations which, according to me, are not consistent with Christ's message.

Is the Church's image in poor Countries an image of grandeur?

Not of grandeur: of difference. In India there are 12 million Christians, a very small percentage; but a parish priest usually constructs himself a façade of respectability based on money: he must have a beautiful car, live in a house different from the others... Gaston, for example, who is the Christian I feel closest to, has always been rejected by the local Catholic hierarchy; he has always been subject to reprimands by the bishop because a Christian "does not have the right" to share in this way the life of poor people, he must live in a different way. For sure, foreign missionaries are closer to the people than the local clergy who need to materially assert themselves; but for me this is not acceptable. In Latin America, on the other hand, I have seen more priests and bishops who are really close to poor people and this is why I am very fond of the theology of liberation. 

You seem to be particularly sensitive to the issue of the Church's wealth...

Yes, I am! When I met John Paul II in 1986 I also made him understand how, by my very nature, I was rather shocked by the Vatican pomp, it almost seems to me that there are two worlds: the one of poor people and the one of monsignors. The Pope listened to me and then told me something amazing that I have never forgotten: "If I could do it, I would come and live in a shantytown in Calcutta like your heroes in "City of Joy" to lead the Church from there!" I found it wonderful and sincere.

After all, Saint Peter's, too, was built with poor people's offerings!

Definitely! But maybe today there is a use that may be more consistent with the desire of poverty of my heroes who are Mother Theresa, Saint Vincent de' Paul and so on. I would rather see Saint Peter's become a museum for humanity rather than a chapel to celebrate the Eucharist in. In the era of extreme precariousness for many brothers of ours, I would respectfully tell Benedict XVI: "Please sell some of the treasures that have accumulated in the Vatican's rooms, exchange the bishops' Mercedes, which are lined up in the garages, for small cars, and distribute all this richness to the poorest of the world so that they may dig wells of drinking water, build schools for their children, eat at least once per day". These actions would have a deeper impact than big speeches on poverty held in an office in a Vatican building.

And you, why haven't you moved to the City of joy?

I would not be able to do it! Each person has his own charisma. If you ask me to go and share my life in a shantytown, I would definitely tell you no: I love having certain comforts, I used to have a beautiful house, a dream that was built step by step, and I sold it because I needed money for Calcutta. Everyone is made to serve the cause to the best of his/her ability and personally I think I am more useful writing articles, giving speeches at conferences, putting the little talents I have to the service of the poorest people.

What is your secret in this mission?

The success of the City of joy is due to the fact that I have told a story. I did not want to preach. I did not tell the reader: you eat three times per day, this is bad, you immediately have to share with the poor people. I did not try to create bad consciences. I often see people who do this; I prefer to give a testimony. I want to share the extraordinary encounters I've had. And I think that the more you are satisfied with telling a story without trying to influence the reader, the more widespread the response.

But is fundraising enough?

No. On the contrary, it would be relatively easy to send a check from our house in Saint-Tropez; to verify that this money is used in the best way possible, that no one makes a profit from it (often when money comes from heaven, the trend is to disengage), that it does more good than bad, is something else: because the need is not for assistance, but for education, so that everyone may find the ways to reclaim themselves from their condition. We are very careful about this aspect, and we are therefore obliged to keep an eye on it, to visit our projects often, and in this way we tell the poor person that we are his brothers, that we love him the way his family does. It is something as important as the money-- it is a question of dignity.

Why do you do that? For generosity?

No: I do it because my wife and I have met people who have given us more than what we may ever give them back. When, at 5 o'clock in the morning you receive a call from India: "Brother, brother, a cyclone destroyed our village, we need 10 thousand dollars immediately" and you know the face of the person calling and the place he is calling from, you cannot stay indifferent. You need to go, sell something, a painting or something else, to help him. You cannot say no.

Is this a way to give back what life has given to you?

I do not give back: I share the opportunity I have been given with people who have not had it. You should understand the wonderful gratification you have when you see a leprous child cured, when you know his parents - the mother who has been without hands, legs and nose for 30 years - and you know that that kid has become an engineer because he is very skilled and you paid for his university tuition. In those eyes you see that destiny has made two paths cross and.. tac, something changed, even only for one child. Mother Theresa used to say: saving a child is saving the world.

What is your dream?

Abbé Pierre said a wonderful thing: "You are old when you have no more plans". I always have plans, I always want to do things and I think that this is what keeps the machine working. It is important to believe in something and to have the chance to realize one's own dreams through actions. My humanitarian commitment is only a drop of water but it gives a particular meaning to my and my wife's life. 

Mother Theresa and Abbé Pierre have both died... Is age of prophets ending?

History shows us that prophets are cyclical. I think young prophets exist that we do not know about yet, but who will soon emerge and pick up where those who have preceded them left off. Around the world you may come across some young volunteers who are amazing! Today people need points of reference, they need someone to admire, they need to love ideas - maybe idols. This is why I told the story of my "idols", men who shaped my life or generated my revolts. Tomorrow there will be other prophets...

Therefore, you declare yourself optimistic.

Yes, I am indeed. In the Middle Ages there was the black death that was claiming millions of victims. Today there are other threats but the world is always rich in hope. I have had the chance to meet some people who have made me proud of being part of humanity.

Transaltion from the italian language by Elena Dini